I'm joined now by our Conservative
representative um Conservative Party
Chair Kevin Hollen is here with me this
morning. Very good morning to you. Let's
start with that latest poll, shall we?
Because we were saying there that it's
bad news for Labor. They're down one
point at 20%. But if it's bad for them,
it's even worse for you, isn't it? Down
one point at 17%.
>> Yeah, we're nowhere near where we need
to be. We're not even on the pitch yet
in terms of taking the fight um to
reform. Certainly. Certainly Labour
we've done an awful lot in terms of
holding to account. Certainly we have an
awful lot of work to do. Um what Kevin
Bnock our leaders said she would do is
take time to get our policies right
rather than rush out policies that can't
be delivered upon which of course
resulted in some of the lack of the
trust we saw in previous in previous
administrations
um take time to make sure we get our
policies right. So I think what people
will see over the next few weeks
particularly at conference roll out of
policies which we already have done to a
certain extent on things like
deportation the deportation bill but
things like European convention on human
rights that that work's going on right
now. So I think more and more people
will see Keock as a strong person we
need to lead this country.
>> Okay. But some people say well maybe
we're waiting too long when you've got
reform bringing out all their
announcements. So, let's just see uh
what your reaction is to what they said
about uh migration. You talked about
their plans for mass deportation. So, do
you welcome their ideas or do they go
too far in your view?
>> I welcome many of their ideas because
they're stolen directly from our
playbook. I mean, if you remember only a
few months ago, Nigel Farage's solution
to migration, illegal migration, the
boats coming over the channel, was to
tow them back to France. We said that
wouldn't work. We put together our
deportation bill which included uh
deporting people to a third country as
we had planned in the previous
parliament. Um now look where he's gone
to. He's moved from that position and
realized he can't do that. He's copied
our plans and now he's come to the same
conclusion. So yes, I'm I'm not saying
presentationally he doesn't he doesn't
uh come across and people do he tells
people what they want to hear and so he
definitely is is is cutting through. But
nevertheless, what you've got to look at
Nigel Farage is in the context of a
these plans are not his, he's stolen
from us. But also the fact these other
promises, I mean, there's 120 billion
pounds a year of excess spending
promises he's made. It was simply
bankrupt the country.
>> He would say he's just exploiting your
party's failure to deliver. The Tories
said they bring down migration and they
failed.
>> Well, the reality is, look at his plans.
Look for plans, including a new British
bill of rights. it was to replace the
European Convention on Human Rights.
That is exactly what we had planned. But
the reality in parliament that takes
time and you'd face massive opposition
in parliament for to that including in
the Lord. So it's easy to announce
policies. Delivering on the ground is
much more difficult.
>> Okay. So, so what what would you do when
it comes to human rights in this
country? Um reform are saying that
they'll leave the European Convention on
Human Rights. they'll leave the UN
convention uh for refugees as well. Will
the Conservatives commit to the same
thing?
>> Well, already in May, we've already
announced that we would disapp
on human rights.
>> But the human rights act um basically
embodies the principles of the European
Convention in UK law. That's what
happens. So we've already said we'll
disappear
rights because it has some other
implications as well in terms of foreign
national offenders for example. So what
we do in that case is is we've asked
Lord Wolson one of the most eminent
lawyers in this country to look at this
properly look at the implications of
leaving the European Convention Human
Rights and then in time in the next few
weeks you'll see an announcement in
terms of our plans for that. But Kimmy
Bernuk has already said she's minded to
leave. I think that will probably be the
position, but let's see where we go to
on that. But well, you can be assured
from our from our approach, it will be
properly considered and we'll consider
the other implications of leaving that
kind of legislation.
>> UN Refugee Convention
>> again all this these things are under
consideration. So you will make
announcement on the UN refugee
convention
>> and we'll make announcements on
immigration policy but nothing will stop
us from stopping those small boats
coming over the channel. That that is
our commitment.
>> Okay. And and you say the reformer is
stealing uh your ideas. Would you like
them set up a set up a returns agreement
to Afghanistan? Would you do a deal with
the Taliban?
>> Well, that's one of the reasons we
looked at the Rwanda plan. In fact, we
wanted to implement the Rwanda plan
against lots of protest outcry from the
media and other politicians about that.
But because it's very difficult to do a
deal with the Taliban of course or the
Ayatollah in Iran. So we had a solution
for that which included involved a third
country. Our chosen country was Rwanda
where we deport people who couldn't be
deported to their home country. A third
country solution. That's a better way of
do doing that. Otherwise if you're
simply going to go to the Taliban and
say we need to do a deal with you at all
cost. We have no other option. That's
going to be very expensive and the
potential human rights consequences for
those individuals are very significant.
>> Well, well, yes. I mean, what's your
objection then? It is it the
practicalities of it? It's very
difficult to to do a deal with the
Taliban or or do you have a sort of a
moral objection to it?
>> Of course, have moral objection with
sending people back to somewhere they'd
be tortured. particularly if people for
example have served as part of of our
armed forces in Afghanistan in interpret
Afghanist
>> those people wouldn't be included
>> well I mean is it honest she's saying
that people who have served this country
as an interpreter or other uh by other
other um roles within our armed forces
with it within the our operations
overseas and we're not going to make
sure they're properly looked after and
that was about the third country status
the third country solution with
somewhere like Rwanda. So uh I mean it
is not simply the European Convention on
Human Rights that prevents us uh
subjecting people to torture. There was
common law dating back hundreds of
years. So it's not you can't just leave
the European Convention on Human Rights
think the courts won't have will be will
be happy with the situation where people
will be tortured in their in the nation
you return them to. Um
>> one last quick question about um
Britain's relationship with the EU. Um
the government announced its reset
earlier this summer and some of its um
temporary arrangements which they hope
to make some of those deals permanent.
Nigel Farage says he wants to to reverse
that reset and tear up the agreement.
Nick Thomas Simmons for the government
is saying that means he wants to see
British business fail. Do do you agree
with him on that? Where's your what's
your position?
>> No, I don't. I mean the thing is I mean
it was always going to be difficult
leaving the European Union. There is a
price to pay for everything. The closer
you align to the European Union, the
more difficult it is to do do deals with
other countries. That's the reality. So
instead of being a rule maker, you
become a rule taker. What Labour's
suggesting is that they all become rule
takers from the European Union. And when
we left, we left the European Union.
That's not what people wanted in my
view. So So no, now because we left the
European Union, we managed to strike
trade deals with many nations across
across the world. Australia, New
Zealand, Canada, um, and and in the
Pacific region. All that is at risk if
you more if you too closely align with
the European Union and certainly would
very much affect our chances of striking
a trade deal with the United States.
>> Okay, Kevin Holden, we're out of time,
but we appreciate you coming in this
morning.
>> Pleasure. Escape.